Archbishop Adewale Martins: Killings, Insecurity Escalating in Nigeria Because Perpetrators Are Not Punished

The Catholic Archbishop of Lagos, Most Rev. Alfred Adewale Martins is sad over the rising level of insecurity, killings and other social vices in the country which he regretted are threats to the continued existence of Nigeria. He told Ferdinand Ekechukwu that the onus is on the federal government and the security agencies to do more by bringing the killings to an end and prosecuting the perpetrators. The clergy also describes corruption as monster that has been holding the nation down, considering recent happenings in the present administration. He used the opportunity to shed some light on the controversy surrounding blessing of same sex couples; excerpts:

 Given the myriad challenges Nigeria faces, what is your greatest fear about the country?

The continued existence of Nigeria in a peaceful situation is the greatest fear that I have. Several times in the past, we have reached like the precipice, but, by the Grace of God, we were able to draw back and not fall over the precipice. But the way things are now seem to me that we are going towards the precipice again as a nation and we must decide to begin to do things differently. Talk about the killings going on all over the country at this point in time, the fact that they happen and there are no consequences that anybody can point at is gradually driving people to the edge. And I believe that as we are beginning to see peaceful demonstrations going on, for example in Plateau State, if it is not taken seriously, very soon, people would begin to take laws into their hands and chaos and anarchy may grow from there. We continue to see situations of attacks on some communities by the so called unknown gunmen in the east for instance and the bandits in the north, these are very dire things that are happening. Whatever the grouse maybe, I think we have not had adequate response to those challenges. I mean if people feel that they are not being listened to, if people feel that they do not have adequate stake in the life of the country, and therefore they begin to act and react to that, you cannot justify the way they react. There’s absolutely no justification for people just simply going to police station and killing people. We cannot justify that. But at the same time, it is important that government and the security agencies act in a proactive way to identify what the issues are and find ways and means of responding to them. Otherwise, these activities as they continue would not only hamper the economy of those areas but they would also as it were, drive people to the edge.

What are those things that should be done to address insecurity in Nigeria?

 First of all, governments need to listen to people in a way that it is more of wanting to hear them, rather than as it were, listening just for the sake of we have heard you. They have to listen to them and respond to the issues which they bring up. That’s one. I believe also that it is important for us as a people to go back to the values that make for proper human co-existence. The respect for life seems to have constantly been put on the back burner these days. We need to go back to those values of respect for human lives. In those days, if a person stole anything, it’s treated like a communal problem to correct that child; but these days it could seem that when people, as it were, steal something that belongs to the entire country they are celebrated in the communities; they are given titles, they are given awards, and the rest of it, not minding how the person may have gotten the money. So going back to the traditional basic values as a nation is very vital. And of course, you can talk about what government needs to do. I have talked about listening to the people with the intention of hearing them speak. It’s also important for government and security agencies to literarily take every act of criminality as a criminal act, pursue, investigate and ensure that those who are responsible are brought to book. So, I believe if we begin to do and see things differently, perhaps things will change and life will become better for us a nation.

In your speech recently, you highlighted the danger corruption is causing to the nation and you stressed that, ‘corruption, inefficiency and lack of transparency cast doubts upon our shared aspiration for peaceful co-existence.’ What is your take on recent allegation of corruption in the present administration where we have seen one minister being suspended, another asked to resign and all manner of documents flying around?

Nigeria is a very rich country as it were in terms of human and natural resources. It is very rich in terms of even the possibilities and prospects, but corruption is what I might call a monster that has been holding us down as a nation. You have mentioned an instance of ministers being pulled out because of their alleged corrupt activities. But when monies that were meant for the lowest in terms of the poorest of the poor, the monies meant to alleviate their pains and their situations are being siphoned through some means that are not good for the poor, that corruption is actually holding down the good life of people. But it is also important for us to recognise that when these people begin to speak, they are also pointing fingers at other people which means the corruption is not just their own problem, but also problem of others within government in particular at this point in time. And so there has to be a will to deal with inappropriate use of government resources. There has to be the will to follow through in order to kill this idea of impunity that is very present in our time.

Looking at the level of criminality and banditry, especially the Plateau killings which you recently commented on, some have argued that there is a link between criminality and inter-religious tension between Christians and Muslims, what is your take on that?

 Well, tensions between Muslims and Christians have been there for a long while. I think since that old issue of bringing Nigeria into the Organisation of Islamic Countries (OIC), it has become even worse. So, that problem has been there for a long time. But what I believe is that people who are not living according to the objective demands of their faith are responsible for the problems we are having now. People who have criminal tendencies are latching on to it, or rather abusing their faith in order to fulfill their criminal tendencies. That is what, in my estimation, is responsible for the problems that we are having in Plateau State. And of course in many ways, it also goes back to economics in some sense because if a herdsman does not have adequate grazing land, the criminal thing within him, makes him to want to take over the land of other people and therefore trouble begins in that way. So, I know it is not as simple as it is, but more complicated than this. But looking behind, criminal intensions, economic problems and the desire to take over the lands of people, they are the problems in my own understanding. But they would continue to be problems unless government and the security agencies do the needful. When there is an infraction of the law, bring the offenders to book. Now we are hearing that a number of people are being arrested concerning the present Plateau killings, I think everybody should be alert to see what will happen. That is because sometimes in the past we saw arrests that were made and at the end everything just frittered away when attention was directed to other directions. So, I believe all of us, it’s important for even the press to ensure that this matter is not swept under the carpet. Otherwise, the problem will continue. People are right to read religious motive into the killings especially since it has continued to happen mainly in Christian dominated places (both in Kaduna and Plateau States especially) and there is no real effort to bring those responsible to justice. The onus is upon government and security agencies to prove that reading religious motives into the killings is wrong by bringing the killings to an end and also by prosecuting the perpetrators.

In all of these, what is the role of leadership?

Well, even by the definition of the word, they are supposed to lead the people, to give leadership to people, working the direction of general welfare of people and the realisation of common good. Leaders are supposed to lead by example in directing people towards that which is best, the practices which are best, to attain common good. In other words, leaders who expect the followers to make sacrifices in order that goals will be achieved, must lead by example. As it were today, the economy is in very bad shape; there is hardly money for people to do their normal things. Even for sick person to buy drugs, simple malaria drugs and the rest are becoming more and more difficult. Yes, sacrifices are supposed to be made, but I believe the leadership also has a responsibility of leading the people and not just telling them what to do but being in the front to lead them in the direction that is right. Well it was good to hear that the President has decided to cut down on the entourage. But I think obviously it can still be better. When people begin to think about how to lower the cost of governance in such a way that people can see that government and its officials are making efforts, I think it will go a long way. That is the kind of thing I expect from leadership, particularly leadership in general. I think it’s necessary for leadership to address issue of good governance by leading people in the direction of making the required sacrifices to bring the nation to par once again. We are all living in the reality of the removal of petrol subsidy, living in the reality of the depreciation of the naira and the economic hardship and people are suffering. They are suffering and leadership needs to reassure them that they are really leading them by not only taking steps to address the issue of poverty but also, showing example in governmental policies.

 Talking about challenges, economic hardship, and rising level of poverty in the country, they appear to have stoked up the ‘Japa’ syndrome which has seen many youths leave the country for greener pastures. Is japa the solution to the problems of Nigeria?

It is not the ultimate solution, but it is like short-term solution for individuals who are concerned. They have goals they want to achieve, they look at the situation and it looks impossible to achieve them and it looks more possible to go elsewhere in order to achieve them. And so you really find it difficult to say ‘don’t go’ or ‘it is not good to go’. But at the same time, we know there are challenges with going out of the country. I mean you go there, all the promises of good life, all the promises of job opportunities, by the time they get there, they evaporate most times. Unless they are really the professionals that the country needs. Even we now see that there’s a lot more pushback with regards to people who are emigrating in those countries and therefore we can say that the ultimate solution is not in going away. However, the ultimate solution lies in government actually giving good governance such that people don’t want to go away. So the ultimate solution is not in ‘japa’, but is rather in providing good governance that gives people a sense of ‘I have a future’, or give people a sense of ‘I can actualise my potentials without having to go out of the country’.

Do you think the church has lived up to its responsibility in the midst of all these challenges?

 Well the church is part and parcel of the society in which we live in the sense that it is a unit within the society. The church is not some foreign body, that is just there. It’s made up of people; you and I are the church. And so the responsibility of ensuring that things are different devolves from all of us together who have faith in Christ and who want to live like Christ. So, if there are problems we should be asking ourselves whether we are living the values that Christ has given unto us. We should be asking ourselves whether we are making efforts to be faithful to the faith that we profess. So if we have not lived up to expectation, then I think each of us needs to begin to think. But then of course on the other hand, the leadership of the church also has the responsibility to lead the church; to that extent we need to continue to challenge ourselves to ensuring that the right kind of leadership, for instance not just focusing on all the good with regards to material things that you can get; not just focusing on the good things of life in this world, but also focusing on the kind of virtues needed in order that this world can be better. We should be focusing on teaching people about the common good. The things that we need to do in order that everybody can get a bit of the goodness of this world. So, our leadership needs to also work in this direction.

The line between politics and religion appears to be getting blurred. Now you see some so called men of God hobnobbing with politicians or even going into politics and this has to some extent created some issues within the society. How do you think this can be addressed?

Well, it is important that there should be a separation of roles: Politicians should play their politics and men of God – priests and pastors –  should be the conscience of society giving direction to what needs to be done. So there should be a clear separation of roles. Of course at the same time, there has to be some point of connection. But it should not be to the detriment of the roles that the priest for instance should play. If to begin to make statement that are partisan, then naturally we run into deep waters. If we begin to make statements that seem to be in ways not appropriate to praise and sing praises of people, then we would get into trouble. I mean of course when people are doing well, it is appropriate to commend them and to say ‘please continue to do this’. But even beyond that, to even begin to go into partisan politics itself, for me it is not right. The politician should do their politics; the priests should be giving them the kind of values that they need to bring in to governance; should be guiding them in the way and path of God and make them to do things right. So that distinction should not be blurred.

But there is the case of a Reverend Father who is now the Governor of Benue State?

 Well, it is an aberration that the Catholic church does not permit. In fact, everyone knows about his relationship with the church at this point in time.

 On the issue of blessing of same sex marriage which the Vatican recently took a position on, what is your understanding of that statement by the Pope?

 I believe that what the Pope said has not in any way undermined the perennial position of the church as far as same sex issue is concerned. It has not undermined it in the sense of the fact that that document (Fiducia Supplicans) said over and over again that marriage is between a man and a woman and that it has got to be a relationship that is capable of bringing children into the world. Also, it has got to be a relationship that is stable, that is committed and that is meant to last till death do us part. In order words, that is the perennial teaching of the church and it was reconfirmed in that document. But I think in many ways, that aspect of the document has not been given the right kind of publicity that it should have been given in the discussion around this matter. I think what has been given much more publicity is the issue with regards to blessing. The blessing, is it blessing of the union of people of same sex or is it the blessing of the individuals who are in the union? Again it was said that the blessing cannot be of the union between the two people of same sex because the church does not even have the power to endorse the union of people of the same sex as it is considered inappropriate and even sinful for people of the same sex to engage in marital or sexual relationship. It is evil and the church cannot bless per se. So, that is also clearly stated in my understanding of that document. What is said to be, so to say, you can bless an individual in that situation of same sex relationship who, as it were, desires blessing from God with the hope that if he gets that blessing from God it might assist him or her to begin to see the true reality of the situation in which he is involved and therefore, is like if the church blesses that individual, who’s asking for blessing, it is in order that he may call down the mercy of God on that person in order that the mercy of God might begin to make that person to think differently about the situation in which he or she has been involved. So, it is not the blessing of the union. Rather it is the blessing of some individuals engaged in inappropriate relationship and we pray that God will lead the person out of that. So, that is what the blessing is really all about. And if you do that kind of blessing, you are following the kind of pattern Jesus himself laid down because Jesus condemned sin, but he did not condemn the sinner. In the Bible, when the woman was caught in adultery and people were trying to stone her to death, in the end Jesus said to her, ‘has no one condemned you?” In other word, no one has thrown a stone at you? Okay, go away and don’t sin anymore. He acknowledged the sin, condemned it by telling the sinner to go and sin no more, but then, the sinner was not condemned. So, the blessing is all about not condoning the sin but asking that the mercy of God should be showered on the sinner.

 But do you think it was appropriate for the Pope to have mentioned it the way he did in the sense that the catholic church had always preached against same sex marriage?

 I think it is even important to recognise the context as we have been told. The context is that the dicastery that is responsible for that document which the Pope cited has been receiving questions from people all over the world – should we bless people who are in this relationship or not? – What kind of blessing is appropriate to give them? And so it was just simply a response to the questions that were coming to the decastery from all over the world. And in any case, we know that in some countries, they are already planning blessing of unions and so the Pope had to say ‘no you can’t bless unions’. But you can bless persons. So, that is the real thing behind this. People need to look beyond the headlines that are given in reporting these issues. Headlines can sometimes be misleading. Headlines don’t tell the whole story of what is being told. And so it is important to go and read the document itself and get not reported speech, not the understanding of somebody, but rather what the document said so that you can as an adult who has adequate intelligence see the thing itself. And I think that is what is lacking in my understanding why this whole thing has become such a big issue.

You will be 65 this year; do you feel the number in your age?

 Well (chuckles), what I can say is that God has been good to me; God has been good to me perhaps more than I deserve. And I will only continue to thank God for it that I’m able to carry out my duties without too much stress. And I think that is the Grace that I have received and I am thankful for it.

So how has it been as the Archbishop of Lagos?

Well the position of the Archbishop of Lagos is Grace given to the person and my experience of being in this position for this last number of years is that by the Grace of God we have people who are ready to work together in order to achieve the purpose for which the church was established. We have priests who collaborate well, we have lay faithful who are in their different roles doing their portions and we have the religious who are also doing their own bit. Of course there are issues along the line, but whatever issues that arise, they are not such as to be the main focus. Rather for me it’s the great things God is doing for his people. And so my experience has been to face the challenges of life but also take the good things that God has sent my way.

Finally, what are your hopes and expectations for Nigeria this year 2024?

I look forward to a Nigeria that is peaceful. I look forward to a Nigeria in which the common good is the priority of the values that we all pursue. I look forward to a 2024 in which government shows people that it is interested in their welfare by the policies that it takes, by the life and activities of those in governance. And I also look forward to a situation in which citizens themselves recognise that we have responsibilities. I mean if we do not do things right ourselves, we are also partly to blame for the circumstance in which we find ourselves. And if we want a clean environment but we do not stop throwing trash around, how do we expect to get a clean environment? So in other words, everybody needs to simply do that which is required of him or her as citizens in order to get better as a country. I look forward to that.